Thursday, October 15, 2009

Ruth. Williams. Wait a second, Barry Bonds took steroids?

SI's Joe Posnanski wrote a column yesterday evaluating the best hitters to ever play the game. Pure hitter. No base-stealing. No five tool bullshit. Just hitting.

The list is pretty much what you'd expect and will create all sorts of debate that is completely moot because you don't compare apples and oranges, steroids and non-steroids and other things that are clichéd opposites.

Some notable current names: Ken Griffey Jr., Frank Thomas, Albert Pujols, Manny, Vlad, Todd Helton...the list goes on and features many current and recent players.

Though The Big Lead isn't so sure that Pujols, only in his ninth season, should be ranked so high on an all-time list.

And we're not sure why Barry Bonds isn't No. 1. Again, apples and oranges blah blah blah. But no player we have ever seen will change the way the game is played and Barry did that. Give the cream and a clear an assist, but steroids don't improve plate discipline.

Read the list. Get heated. And debate in the comments.

8 comments:

rstiles said...

Did I miss something is Posnaski's article, but where the fuck was Tony Gwynn and Derek Jeter????....these guys are hitting machines...

I know people hate Jeter, but the guy can hit the fuck out of the ball!!!...he has 2,747 hits can hit to the opposite field and even pull the ball if he has to...

No Tony Gwynn????....this guy was built like the Grimace, but he was a machine....

Again, I ask, where is Jeter and Gwynn?!?!?!!?

rstiles said...

I read through that article again, thinking I missed something...

Jim Thome over Derek Jeter and Tony Gwynn?????????....Thome was never a "hitter"...

Posnaski is a fucking moron!!!!...Jeter and Gwynn should be in the top 20

GMoney said...

Why are Vlad and Helton on this list? Neither guy is a potential HOF'er.

JMC said...

I'm as much a Bonds fan as any other and I agree that arguments can certainly be made that he should be #1. But I think it was right to put Ruth as the best and here's why - not only was he the best in the game during his time, but nobody else even came close. He hit more homeruns that entire teams. If you look at his numbers compared to league average at the time, the difference is HUGE - much bigger than Bonds' numbers.

rstiles said...

Babe Ruth was a freak of nature...and that is meant in a good way...

Anonymous said...

Gwynn is a major oversight. Love that a dude can weigh like 300 pounds and hit .330 every year.

Did Ichiro make the cut?

Anonymous said...

In terms of how impressive his raw numbers are, I say he's still behind Ruth and Williams. And in terms of how he changed the game, well... he didn't. Maybe the intentional walk is more prevalent because of him, but that's it. Seriously. He changed games he played in, sure, but didn't change the game of baseball.

Also, I'm tired of the whole, "You can't compare eras, but if you could Bonds would be the best" argument. Either you can or you can't compare them, but if you're going to try then you need to attempt to account for the steroids issue. Bonds is a player for whom there happens to be 1) a good deal of steroids evidence and 2) a long pre-steroids track record that suggests he was naturally gifted enough to be on this list, but not to be at the top of it.

Bokolis said...

Again with this fucking Posnaski. I read an article independent of TBP prompting. The guy is an immature twit. His analysis sucks because he is seemingly incapable of perspective. He should thank is lucks stars that he gets paid to write.

In any event, by leaning on OPS+, he seriously overvalues 1) the home run (especially since a lot of those guys had to juice up to hit them) and 2) the walk, since pitchers are a lot more willing to walk batters than they did back in the day.

Otherwise, whythefuck would Helton be anywhere near this list? And Vlad?

I don't see how you can put Ruth ahead of Williams.

Gwynn, Carew, Ichiro, Jeter, and Molitor can easily displace Thomas, Griffey, Thome, Helton, Kiner and Vlad.

And, Bonds without the sauce isn't #3. He'd have to go back behind Cobb. But he'd still be ahead of Pujols, who shouldn't be this high...yet.